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Transript:

Tessa Venuti Sanderson: A very warm welcome to today's episode of circle holding. Podcast Julia and I are going to be talking a little bit about how you think about who's going to come, whether it's helpful to have the same people coming to the circle, or whether you leave it open? So, Julia, would you like to dive in with? What is an open circle, and what is a closed circle? What does that mean?

Julia is a circle where there's an open invitation. It doesn't mean that the number of people who come to the circle is totally unlimited. You can still be boundaried about how many people come and how long the circle lasts for. But when you invite people to come along the makeup of that group could be different each time you come along. So, for example, you might run a weekly menopause circle at work where anybody who's going through the experience of menopause can come along, and they've got a safe enough space to talk about what's going on for them.and it's open. Anyone can come along who's within that demographic, and each time it takes place you don't know who's going to come along. You might find out their names and have details about them, because there's been some kind of The alternative is to have a closed circle. So when you have a closed circle, an example of that might be that you arranged to have a 6 week window, so I like to think of things in terms of maybe a term, because that's something that I'm very familiar with because of the school system, and a term might be 10 weeks and in that 10 week term there's a meeting that happens every single week at the same time, and before that circle happened there was a sign up process and a maximum of 12 people could come along to that circle. And those same 12 people are going to be traveling on that journey together, and you can create a map for that. You can create a journey for them to go on together because they know that they're going to be together, and you know so you might have a very particular way of opening that circle up and closing that circle, because it's being bookended.

Tessa Venuti Sanderson: So we're going to give some examples. So you have a better idea of what this might look like. So in terms of open circle. My women's circle is one of those it's been running over 10 years. It started as a red tent, and there, I think, are a couple of women that come who were there from the beginning. So they've been coming for 10 years, but the majority of people have changed over time. So there were some people that came for a while, and then maybe they've moved away or they've had children. It's harder to come. They come back after a while, and it's constantly moving. There tends to be a bulk of people the kind of similar faces you see every single month. But there are new faces that pop up to come and try it. Some of them will stay. Some of them won't, so as long as you can get in, because there are limited spaces, it's an open invitation. How about you, Julia? Have you got an example of a open circle.

Julia Davis: When I teach my classes my Yoga classes. I always create an opportunity for sharing. They're often 90 min classes, and there's an opportunity to share at the beginning, sometimes throughout the middle and at the end. and they are open classes. So some people come every single week for a block but other people come and go, and the same as you. There are some familiar faces. and there are people who come over a period of time, but as the years have gone by, and this is over a period of about 20 years. I've got some faces that were there right at the very beginning, and some who are starting for the 1st time. And it's like a natural fluid progression and within that there is a level of sharing that occurs.

Tessa Venuti Sanderson: Lovely, so I gave an example of the Monthly Women's Circle is an open circle. To give you an example of a closed circle that I've run during the lockdowns. I took this, the circle on online, and this was a very specific circle for 13 weeks. So I decided that in that time I wanted to do a series of meditations and visualizations, and the 13 weeks would give me sufficient time. We met every other week, live, and then there were resources to look at in between. And so there was an invitation. Anybody who wants to come and go on this experience with me, and I can't remember the exact number, but I think I'm thinking there were about 1213 people that signed up for it, and then they followed through all the way. So it was the same faces every week, and that meant that over the time of doing the meditations and the visualizations, and then sharing how they landed in us, what our experience was of them, that we got to know each other better and better as the time went on, and then, when it finished. That was the end of the journey, the end of that particular circle, and then people could always come on something else, or drifted off into into the world.n But it was for a specific amount of time with specific people that signed up.

Julia Davis: A perimenopause circle that I ran. And again, it was for a specific number of people, and the intention for that circle was for there to be a journey in understanding of all the various aspects of perimenopause and we started with an overview and then we went to some of the concepts that are maybe easier to deal with. So the biological aspects of perimenopause. And then as we went on the journey we went towards the trickier aspects. So in perimenopause all sorts of things can happen around our sexual identity, and physiological changes can occur that are uncomfortable, so, as that journey continued, we were able to go deeper with the conversations that we had, because the comfort level increased, and there was a knowledge piece with it as well. So each week there was a piece of knowledge that was share and there was communication outside of the circle as well and we were able to also build circle holding techniques with one another. So a way of sharing that Tessa and I completely love is listening partnerships. And that's something that you can really build with a closed circle, because the people can practice it in the circle, and then have the opportunity to go out of the circle and build on that relationship outside of the group. And I think another lovely thing about a closed circle is the ceremonial aspect that you can invite into it if you choose to. It's really lovely to honor the time that we've spent together and find a way to bring it to a close in a really beautiful way.

Tessa Venuti Sanderson: We were talking. I was just thinking about the difference of the feeling for me as a facilitator with a completely new circle, where maybe most of the people that have never experienced circle before compared to the feeling in a closed circle, and I think with a closed circle, although I always would repeat the guidelines every time. I think that's really important. I think there's less explaining that you have to do once once the circle is established, whereas with a very new circle there is, there is more unpacking of how exactly all of this is going to work. I think I end up talking more so. It's really lovely when you begin to relax into a circle and with with an open circle where you know, as I said in my women's circle. The bulk of people are familiar to me. There's also a sense of okay. You know, most people here know how this works, and they also start to be part of the holding. It's not actually me doing all of the holding anymore. Whereas with a new circle you are having to work quite hard to create that space and to keep that container where people feel comfortable. So I think we've both talked about the level of sharing, and that with a newer circle. You're sort of starting with easier subjects or more superficial level, not compared to everyday conversation. But still and then over time, there's there's a deepening. So that's why I feel, even with my open women's circle, although anybody could come for the 1st time. We we still can go quite deep, because there's that holding from the other people. There are people that have been there before that help to model the level of sharing that we're doing.

Julia Davis: I think that's a really astute observation that the longer a circle's been established, if there's some continuity there, the holding feels more secure because of the people who've been on that journey. And there's also something about closed circles that is really fantastic, and also that I sometimes feel a bit sad or emotional about, because when we go on that journey with people in a closed circleit can be really beautiful. And these relationships can really flower. And often what occurs is that even though that circle has ended, the friendships and relationships that have been built up through that circle continue. But as a facilitator. We're not always part of these ongoing relationships that continue afterwards, so it can feel very, very rich to be responsible for a closed circle. But it can be a real mix of emotions, of joy and sadness when those circles come to an end. And I'm thinking about rites of passage circle so often it can be so beautiful to take young people so tweens, you might call it sort of that 8 to 12 or 8 to 13 age group on a journey together with their peers and when you do that it's really nice for it to culminate in something, it might culminate in something that isn't a circle. So something that I've been part of is a, you know, a high copper mountain, or a high copper hill, or something like that that ends the circle or some kind of ritual, but then, once it's over we have to let go and know that that rite of passage in that circle has served its purpose and allow them to go out into the world. And yeah, there are definite mixed emotions about doing that.

Tessa Venuti Sanderson: That's really making me think how, with a closed circle, there's a very obvious beginning and an obvious end. And so, as a facilitator, when you're planning what that's going to look like, you know, you might have a beginning ceremony if it's appropriate to the group that you're hosting, and you might have some sort of celebration or ceremony at the end.

Tessa Venuti Sanderson: So the circles individually might look quite different, because you're thinking actually of the whole structure across a number of weeks or months, whereas in my monthly circles it tends to have a very sort of similar structure, because they need to stand alone, each one, because somebody might only ever come once. So there's definitely a difference in the kind of planning that I do as a facilitator. And I think that also ties into the energy that I use. So it's more intense setting up a closed circle for a certain length of time. But then you know that it will end, and you'll be able to go and just let it all go and relax. So if you wanted to, you could do all the planning ahead of time. And it's it's all done. It's all ready for you. That's, I think, quite nervous system friendly for you as the facilitator, whereas it's a different kind of energy you need for an open circle that's like open ended. You? Don't you know. I don't know when my women's circle will go on till it's been running 10 years. I went online during the pandemic I just adapted, and it takes a different kind of energy to pace yourself so that you have the energy every time the circle comes around that you're ready to hold that space to the best of your ability.

Julia Davis: Yeah. And I'm thinking, too, that it could be really nice to not only be creating all the time. So not being the only person who's doing that. If I'm in a place where I'm creating all the circles, be they open or closed. It's really nice for me to have a space to drop into that. I haven't had any responsibility for whatsoever I can rock up, and other people can hold me. I really remind myself of that need to be held by others, sometimes.

Tessa Venuti Sanderson: Yeah, and I think it's really important to think about your well-being. It might feel appropriate for some facilitators. If you are doing quite a lot of facilitation to think of having supervision of some kind, so that you've got a space to to talk about all the sorts of things we talk about in the episodes, you know, sort of the processes, what's coming up for you in relation to them. So you're really looking after yourself to be able to sustain. It's quite amazing when I think it's it's been 10 years how much I've sort of grown in that time as a person, and as a facilitator, you know, when I 1st started I was just finding my feet. I didn't find any training that existed at the time. So I just took the plunge, working from examples I'd had of retreats. I'd gone to workshops where there'd been circles facilitated. So it was really learning on the job.

Julia Davis: I think that's 1 of the things that made us write us write our book circle, holding a practical guide to facilitating talking circles. We wrote that book because we didn't have a map ourselves. So we wrote the map that we wanted. And I think it's been a focus for our training as well. We wanted to create something that would be useful, and that would hold you as you walk through your facilitating journey. I'm about to embark on some training to do some volunteering work.and I was really gratified to see that in that framework there was a space to be held while I'm learning something new. And I think that's something that is really important to have a space for us while we're holding space for others., who's holding the holders. So we very much would love for you to feel held as you're doing this really important job of holding others. And I really do believe that it is such an important role to have to be holding space for others. It's a really sacred thing to do whatever environment we're in when we're holding space for others. We are doing a really valuable job. So thank you for choosing to listen to us and to taking, and for taking the brave step of creating your circles.

Tessa Venuti Sanderson: Yeah. So I hope that unpacking a little bit different models, it's helped you to see what might work for you. That ultimately is the most important question, what works for you as the facilitator? That's what will make it sustainable. That's what will help you to show up and do your best facilitation rather than focusing on what you think will work for the people coming. That that's part of it, obviously. But what time of day is going to work for your lifestyle. Are you a morning person? Is it going to be very difficult to run an evening circle because you're just out of energy at that point, taking all these personal considerations, will help you find the right model for the circle that we'll keep on going and keep connecting people and helping them not be isolated, but building community.

Julia Davis: Thank you for joining us.

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